MModern Wisdom
← All episodes
Ryan Holiday20 October 2022

Stoicism's Lessons For A Disciplined Life - Ryan Holiday - #541

2Frameworks
16Insights

Listen

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster

'More often than not' beats impossible perfect standards

Holiday reframes discipline away from self-flagellation, arguing that impossibly high standards make you fragile and unable to enjoy where you are. Citing Seneca's line about becoming 'a better friend to myself,' he says discipline should feel like love and support, not hatred. The healthier standard is asking whether you're doing the right thing more often than not, so a single off day loses its power over you.

  • High standards drive achievement but block contentment and sustainability
  • Seneca measured progress by becoming a better friend to himself
  • Marcus Aurelius: pick yourself up when you fall and celebrate being human
  • Aim for 'more often than not,' not a paralyzing perfect game

Each day I become a better friend to myself. That's how I know I'm making progress.

Ryan Holiday

Love the discipline you know and let it support you.

Ryan Holiday
#perfectionism#self-compassion#seneca#sustainability

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take

Sanity, not skill, is what sets people apart

Holiday says when he considers hiring or mentoring someone, the first test isn't talent or background but whether the person has their life together. Most people who fail to reach their potential don't lose because someone was faster; they self-destruct through bad decisions and ego. Unlike sports, the deciding factor is sanity.

  • The first test is 'does this person have their shit together,' not how talented they are
  • Success rarely comes down to raw ability the way it does in sports
  • People blow their shot through ego and bad decisions, not lack of skill
  • Playing a long game and staying sustainable is part of the same trait

It's not ambition or skill that is going to set you apart, but sanity.

Chris Williamson

The first test is like, is this person fucking nuts or not? Does this person have their shit together or not?

Ryan Holiday
#hiring#discipline#self-sabotage#long-game
Hot Take

Why 75 Hard and arbitrary challenges backfire

Williamson praises the idea of 75 Hard as a discipline framework but says every friend who completed it snapped afterward, ending up with lower overall discipline. Holiday agrees that all-or-nothing challenges treat discipline as a means to win a made-up competition, whereas the goal should be doing the thing consistently over a long period. He runs but isn't trying to win at his hobbies.

  • Rigid all-or-nothing challenges often trigger a post-challenge collapse
  • Discipline smeared into a binge-and-bust cycle is lower overall
  • The aim is consistency over a long horizon, not winning arbitrary competitions
  • Turning a hobby into a competition can make it unhealthy

I'm not trying to win at my hobbies. To me, the doing the thing is the reason I'm doing it.

Ryan Holiday
#75-hard#discipline#sustainability#habits

Explainer· 7

Explainer

Most big mistakes are self-inflicted and come right after success

Holiday argues the biggest enemy isn't competitors, the economy, or gatekeepers but yourself. The most dangerous moment is right after a success, when overreach and ego feel most justified and discipline feels least necessary. He cites Charlie Munger on the long-term advantage of being consistently not stupid.

  • You, not external forces, determine how things go for you
  • Big mistakes usually arrive right after a form of success
  • Success creates the highest justification for slacking on discipline
  • Munger: advantage comes from being consistently not stupid, not very intelligent

Most failures are self-inflicted, or most big mistakes are self-inflicted. And they often come right after some form of success.

Ryan Holiday

It is remarkable how much long-term advantage people like us have gotten by trying to be consistently not stupid instead of trying to be very…

Chris Williamson
#ego#success#discipline#munger
Explainer

Your future is a lagging indicator of today's discipline

Holiday describes how the material available to him when he sits down to write is the product of research and thinking he did years earlier, making today's output a lagging indicator of past work. If you don't simultaneously set up future work, you wake up one day without what you need. The better and more momentum you have, the easier it is to coast while the foundation erodes.

  • Outcomes are a lagging measure of your inputs
  • Today's work depends on work you did at some unknown earlier date
  • Momentum makes it easy to coast while the foundation erodes unnoticed
  • Discipline is a bank account you pay into every single day

All the work that you'll do in the future is in a sense dependent on the work that you're doing now and how long you…

Ryan Holiday

It's a bank account that you pay into every single day.

Chris Williamson
#discipline#atomic-habits#compounding#consistency
Explainer

Going viral means nothing if there's no 'there' there

Holiday notes the internet democratizes opportunity, giving many people their shot, but the shot only matters if you have a core point of view. Someone can be a function of one medium and collapse when asked to translate to another. If you have a genuine voice or message, you can succeed across platforms; if you're just right-place-right-time, audiences eventually feel the emptiness.

  • Algorithms can hand anyone a huge gift regardless of merit
  • The real question is whether you can repeat it, not do it once
  • Some performers are just a feature of the medium they started in
  • A genuine core message translates across every platform

You're really just a feature or a function of the medium you're in. You don't actually have a core thing that can then be translated…

Ryan Holiday
#virality#creators#authenticity#platforms
Explainer

Discipline is useless without something to aim it at

Holiday and Williamson discuss how discipline only makes sense when filtered through a direction or outcome. A club promoter's idea of discipline (out until 4am) is someone else's destruction. Practice without an aim isn't practice, it's just activity, so you first have to define what you're trying to do and then work out the composite tasks that get you there.

  • Without a target, it's unclear what being disciplined even looks like
  • Practice without an aim is just activity
  • Define the goal, then reverse-engineer the portfolio of skills it requires
  • The same behavior can be discipline or self-destruction depending on the aim

Practice without some aim is not really practice at all. It's just activity.

Ryan Holiday
#discipline#direction#goals#purpose
Explainer

Success removes the forcing functions that made you disciplined

Holiday explains that on the way up, scarcity and competition force discipline on you; there's simply no other way. But reaching the top removes those constraints, and people accommodate you instead of binding you. Quoting Eisenhower that freedom is the opportunity for self-discipline, he argues that without a strong internal compass, success becomes deeply unmooring and unlikely to last.

  • Scarcity and competition act as forcing functions for discipline on the way up
  • At the top, the rules that bound you fall away and people accommodate you
  • Many chase success expecting exemption from rules they dislike
  • Those people actually need to be stricter on themselves, not looser

Freedom is better defined as the opportunity for self-discipline.

Ryan Holiday

No one is fit to rule who is not first master of themselves.

Ryan Holiday
#self-discipline#freedom#eisenhower#success
Explainer

The achievement mirage and the two lies we tell ourselves

Holiday says he's never met anyone for whom an external accomplishment delivered the internal fulfillment they expected; you reach it and it moves, like a horizon. The gift is that the first time this happens you can decouple external success from internal contentment and be free forever. Most people instead tell a second lie, that they just need more, a bigger number or another title, and become trapped.

  • External goals promise to fix an internal lacking but never do
  • The gap is evolutionarily useful: it keeps you moving toward the horizon
  • Reaching the goal is a chance to break the link between success and contentment
  • The trap is telling yourself a second lie that more will finally be enough

We think that these external things are gonna address this internal lacking or need or emptiness that we have. I've yet to find someone that…

Ryan Holiday

If you can make that break in that moment, you're free and empowered forever.

Ryan Holiday
#fulfillment#ambition#buddhism#contentment
Explainer

The inner citadel: where to stand when life keeps hitting you

Holiday describes the Stoic inner citadel, a fortress of principles and past experience you retreat into when work is relentlessly hard. He argues that life breaks your heart and takes longer than you expect, and without something to draw on you won't make it. The evidence you can endure is your own history: you survived from a defenseless infant to here, and you'll meet tomorrow with the same tools you've always used.

  • Even privileged, chosen struggle is genuinely hard and heartbreaking
  • The trough of despair after early excitement is real and can last months
  • The inner citadel is built from principles and proof of past endurance
  • Marcus Aurelius: you'll meet the future with the same tools you met today with

If you don't have a sort of a fortress that you can retreat into, that you can rely on, I don't think you're gonna make…

Ryan Holiday

You come from an unbroken line of people who endured terrible things.

Ryan Holiday
#resilience#stoicism#adversity#perseverance

Story· 3

Story

Why Marcus Aurelius shared power and warned himself not to be 'dyed purple'

Holiday recounts that Marcus Aurelius' first act with absolute power was to share it, naming his stepbrother co-emperor as a check on power. In Meditations he warned himself not to be 'Caesarified' or 'dyed purple' by the position. Yet his son Commodus became one of Rome's worst emperors, a tragedy Holiday reads as evidence that inherited power without a forcing function rarely produces good rulers.

  • Marcus's first move with absolute power was to share it as a check
  • He consciously journaled about not being corrupted by his position
  • He seems to have planned a shared succession to prevent tyranny
  • Commodus inherited without earning it and did a poor job of it

Be careful not to be Caesarified. You can easily be dyed purple.

Ryan Holiday

Commodus doesn't have to run for election. He just gets it. And because it doesn't have to get it, it doesn't do a very good…

Ryan Holiday
#marcus-aurelius#power#stoicism#rome
Story

Lou Gehrig vs Babe Ruth: what you owe the craft

Holiday contrasts two baseball greats. Babe Ruth treated his body like a garbage can, burned through millions, and declined into an obese, drunk old man, leaving you wondering what else he could have done. Lou Gehrig, whose career was cut short by disease through no fault of his own, left it all in the jersey. The lesson: if you love the craft, you owe it to take its responsibilities seriously.

  • Ruth's undisciplined lifestyle capped what his talent could achieve
  • Achievement alone doesn't prove someone got the most from themselves
  • Gehrig left nothing on the table despite a career cut short
  • Respecting the craft means honoring its responsibilities

What could you have been capable of if you weren't your own worst enemy?

Ryan Holiday

He left it all in the jersey. There was nothing that he could have done in his career that he didn't do.

Ryan Holiday
#discipline#craft#sports#potential
Story

Queen Elizabeth II as a picture of restraint

Holiday holds up Queen Elizabeth II as an example that discipline is also self-control, not just how hard you can work. Over 70 years in a role defined by what she wasn't allowed to do, she never let the mask slip or had a public outburst. In a world where everyone says everything they think, her restraint, the ability to want to respond and choose not to, was more impressive than ambition.

  • Discipline includes emotional restraint, not only effort
  • Her role was defined by what she couldn't do, a symbolic position she didn't choose
  • 70 years without letting the mask slip is a rare feat of self-control
  • Restraint can be a more impressive path than constant self-assertion

This is a woman who over 70 years never lets the mask slip, never has the outburst.

Ryan Holiday
#restraint#self-control#queen-elizabeth#discipline

Takeaway· 3

Takeaway

Do you want to be fast now or fast later?

Holiday shares a coach's question to Olympian Kate Courtney, who kept over-performing her training workouts: do you want to be fast now or fast later? The purpose of training is to peak when it matters, not in practice. Since life has no single race day, forcing it and peaking early is something to worry about; sustainability and endurance are often the harder, better choice.

  • The purpose of practice is to peak in the moment that matters
  • Driven people overdo training and peak too early
  • Life has no single race day, so forcing it now is risky
  • Ask: your best work at 22, or still doing this at 82 because you love it?

Do you want to be fast now or do you want to be fast later?

Ryan Holiday
#training#sustainability#longevity#peaking
Takeaway

Being great at one thing at the expense of everything is a cop-out

Holiday challenges the 'art monster' ideal of sacrificing everything for one pursuit, calling it the easier path because it takes you off the hook for normal human behavior. He tells of a writer who left a party to keep a promise to her babysitter despite Jack Kerouac mocking her; she knew breaking that word would also make her the kind of person who breaks promises to herself. Broader standards make a better professional.

  • Deciding only one thing matters is easier, not harder
  • Talent is not an exemption from keeping your word
  • Breaking small promises corrodes the promises you make to yourself
  • You can't take the one achievement with you at the end of your life

Work, family, scene, pick two.

Ryan Holiday

Having some talent, some calling, doesn't exempt you from keeping your word.

Ryan Holiday
#balance#integrity#greatness#priorities
Takeaway

If you can't not do a thing, it's in charge of you

Holiday cites the Stoic suspicion of anything that controls us, from cigarettes to phones to the need to win one more deal. Eisenhower quit a five-pack-a-day smoking habit cold turkey by giving himself an order. Williamson adds that caffeine and alcohol often paper over root causes like poor sleep, and that the most insidious compulsions, like workaholism, are the ones society rewards.

  • The Stoics distrusted anything that had control over you
  • Any substance you need to perform has stopped conferring a benefit
  • Caffeine and alcohol often mask root causes rather than solving them
  • Socially rewarded compulsions like workaholism are the most insidious

Any time you can't not do a thing, you probably need to stop doing that thing.

Ryan Holiday

People don't say I'm tired. They say I need a coffee. You've supplanted the problem for the solution.

Chris Williamson
#addiction#self-mastery#workaholism#stoicism