MModern Wisdom
← All episodes
Ed Hagen25 May 2023

The Evolutionary Psychology Of Anxiety & Depression - Ed Hagen - #632

0Frameworks
12Insights

Listen

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster47:30

Is evolutionary psychology racist? Hagen's rebuttal

Responding to claims that race science is foundational to evolutionary psychology, Hagen argues it's probably the least race-focused social science. Its core vision is the 'psychic unity of mankind': our brains tripled in size in Africa, and all modern humans descend from that population, expanding out only tens of thousands of years ago. That leaves too little time for meaningful psychological differences between populations — though he concedes some fringe researchers using a flawed national-IQ dataset have exploited the label.

  • Core premise: our cognitive abilities evolved in Africa and are shared by everyone
  • Population differences since the out-of-Africa expansion are minor — skin color, altitude, disease resistance
  • There wasn't time for complex psychological differences to evolve between populations
  • He acknowledges fringe papers on population IQ differences rely on a deeply problematic national-IQ dataset
  • Fixing this requires better research and better peer review, not the theory's foundations

I would argue it's probably the least racist discipline in the social sciences.

Ed Hagen · 47:45
#evolutionary-psychology#race-science#psychic-unity#controversy

Hot Take· 1

Hot Take26:30

Suicidality as an honest, costly signal of need

Hagen applies credible-signalling theory to suicidal behavior. When you're in serious adversity and skeptical social partners won't believe you're truly in need, a genuinely risky act can be an honest signal — because someone whose life is going well can't afford to take a 1-10% chance of dying. The benefit of convincing others you need help can outweigh the risk, which is why suicidal behavior can be adaptive despite its lethality.

  • Credible signals evolve when the benefit of signalling outweighs its cost only for genuine senders, not cheaters
  • Someone whose life is going well can't afford the risk, so the signal is hard to fake
  • For someone in real adversity, the payoff of being believed can outweigh a small chance of death
  • This explains why suicide attempts vastly outnumber completions in both sexes
  • Deaths are framed as the accidental, unintended consequence of a serious-but-survivable signal

Suicidality is a credible signal of need in situations of adversity that can convince skeptical social partners that you're telling the truth.

Ed Hagen · 28:30
#suicide#credible-signaling#evolutionary-psychology#adversity

Explainer· 8

Explainer02:00

Depression as psychic pain: the evolutionary analogy to physical injury

Ed Hagen argues depression is best understood as an extreme form of sadness, or 'psychic pain,' that works like physical pain. Physical pain makes you stop the harmful behavior and think about how to avoid it in future. Psychic pain does the same for social losses — a breakup, a firing, a death — signalling that something is damaging your biological fitness and demands attention.

  • Depression's symptoms (sadness, low interest, sleep and appetite changes) are things everyone has felt, unlike schizophrenia's delusions
  • Physical pain has two functions: stop the injurious behavior, and learn to avoid the situation later
  • Psychic pain is the social analogue — it flags a threat to survival and reproduction
  • The framing is drawn from Randy Thornhill, Randy Nesse and Paul Andrews

We should really think of depression probably as an extreme form of sadness or what Randy Thornhill and others have called psychic pain.

Ed Hagen · 02:15

It's a signal that you're doing something that is going to harm your biological fitness.

Ed Hagen · 03:00
#depression#evolutionary-psychology#psychic-pain#mental-health
Explainer06:30

Adversity is the overwhelming cause of depression

Hagen defines adversity as any situation that decreases your biological fitness — your ability to survive and reproduce. Losing a mate, getting sick or injured, being fired, losing access to resources, or the death of a loved one all qualify. Depression kicks in hardest when the adversity has no obvious solution and requires prolonged, effortful thinking.

  • Adversity = anything that reduces your ability to survive and reproduce
  • Examples: losing a mate, illness/injury, job loss, natural disaster, death of a loved one
  • The evidence for adversity causing depression is described as overwhelming and likely causal
  • Depression is worst when the solution isn't obvious and demands heavy cognitive resources

From an evolutionary perspective, it would be any situation or circumstance that's likely to decrease your biological fitness.

Ed Hagen · 06:45
#adversity#depression#biological-fitness#evolutionary-psychology
Explainer13:00

Depression also works as a signal of need to your social partners

Beyond the personal experience of pain, Hagen argues depression has a signalling function. Just as physical injury produces tears, crying and visible distress that summon help, the behavioral shutdown of depression signals to social partners that something is wrong and that you need support you can't provide for yourself.

  • Physical injury produces honest signals of need — crying, screaming, facial expressions
  • You often can't address adversity alone, so evolved signals recruit help
  • Depression's visible manifestations let social partners infer your state of mind
  • This is a second evolutionary reason for depression's behavioral symptoms

Often we can't address adversity completely by ourselves... that's another evolutionary reason why depression does involve some of these impacts on our behavior.

Ed Hagen · 14:00
#signaling#depression#social-support#evolutionary-psychology
Explainer17:00

The strength hypothesis: is the sex difference in depression really a strength difference?

Women are about twice as likely to be depressed as men. Hagen's group hypothesised this is really a strength difference, not a sex difference. Because social conflict is deeply intertwined with depression and physically stronger individuals tend to prevail in conflicts, they tested whether controlling for upper body strength would erase the sex gap. Controlling for hand-grip strength, the sex difference in depression diminished and in some analyses disappeared.

  • Depression is deeply intertwined with social conflict and anger
  • Upper body strength predicts prevailing in physical conflicts; there's almost no male/female overlap
  • Controlling for grip strength made the sex difference shrink or vanish
  • Stronger people (within and across sexes) are less likely to be depressed
  • The effect held after controlling for SES, age, hormones and health status — but it's correlational

When we controlled for upper body strength, the sex difference in depression diminished and actually went away in some of our analyses.

Ed Hagen · 18:30

Stronger people are less likely to become depressed and physically weaker people are more likely to be depressed in our data.

Ed Hagen · 19:00
#strength-hypothesis#sex-differences#depression#grip-strength#conflict
Explainer24:30

Why the attempt, not the completion, is the real phenomenon of interest

Hagen reframes suicide research around attempts rather than deaths. For men there are roughly 10 attempts per completion; for young women it can be 100 or more. He argues the attempt is the behavior selection is acting on, and deaths are the unintended tail. The sex difference in completions largely reflects method lethality — men more often use guns — rather than a difference in the underlying signal.

  • Women attempt suicide far more often; men complete more often
  • Roughly 10 attempts per completion in men; up to 100+ in young women
  • The attempt rate for both sexes dwarfs the completion rate
  • Men's higher completion rate is largely explained by lethal methods like firearms
  • China is flagged as a possible exception with high female completion rates (to be verified)

Really the phenomenon of interest here is the attempt, not the success.

Ed Hagen · 25:00
#suicide#sex-differences#method-lethality#statistics
Explainer35:00

Why depression and suicide onset in adolescence: entering mating competition

Depression and suicidal behavior onset in mid-adolescence to early adulthood and peak there, then decline. Hagen ties this to the transition from the protected juvenile phase — where you're shielded by family and not competing for mates or resources — into the adult reproductive phase, when mating and resource competition become intense. Notably, completion rates keep climbing with age even as behaviors fall.

  • Onset tracks the shift from juvenile protection to adult reproductive competition
  • Behaviors peak in the mid-20s when competition is most intense, then decline
  • Completion rates rise with age even as the frequency of attempts falls
  • Older people may need costlier, riskier signals and are also more physically vulnerable to dying

When we see these behaviors onset is right when we're transitioning from the juvenile phase... to the adult reproductive phase, when intense competition can become…

Ed Hagen · 36:15
#age#adolescence#suicide#mating-competition#life-history
Explainer41:00

Postpartum depression as a psychic-pain response to missing social support

Hagen's dissertation research examined the paradox of postpartum depression — misery right after reproductive success. His answer: humans are cooperative breeders who never raised children alone, and the strongest correlate of postpartum depression is a lack of social support from a partner or family. Ancestrally, that absence signalled the child might not survive, triggering psychic pain that demands change or, in the harshest conditions, withdrawal of care.

  • Humans are cooperative breeders — 'it takes a village' to raise a child
  • Lack of social support (from husband or family) is the dominant correlate of postpartum depression
  • Ancestrally, absent support was a cue the child wouldn't make it
  • Child health problems and pregnancy complications are also strong correlates
  • The depression functions as a costly signal that the mother genuinely needs help

Many many cases of postpartum depression are occurring in contexts where mothers feel they don't have social support.

Ed Hagen · 43:30
#postpartum-depression#cooperative-breeding#social-support#psychic-pain
Explainer58:30

Music as a credible signal of coalition quality

Hagen tackles the evolutionary mystery of music by focusing on precise synchronization. Achieving tightly synchronized joint performance takes weeks or months of practice, so a group that performs in perfect synchrony is displaying, in minutes, how coordinated and committed a coalition they are. Observers can rapidly assess whether performers have practiced together for a long time — critical information when groups choose allies for war or food-sharing.

  • Precise synchronization is the distinctive, hard-to-fake feature of music
  • Ethnographic record shows groups practice songs and dances for weeks before a feast
  • A short performance lets observers assess coordination that's otherwise hard to see
  • Humans cooperate at the group level, so assessing coalition quality is vital
  • Specialized musical memory (recalling old songs in perfect synchrony) supports the adaptation idea

Precise synchrony could be a signal of coalition quality... the only way that you can achieve that precise synchrony is with a lot of practice.

Ed Hagen · 59:00
#music#credible-signaling#coalition#synchronization#evolutionary-psychology

Story· 1

Story09:30

How his mother's depression may have saved his life

Hagen shares that after his father died of colon cancer, his mother became depressed and ruminated on whether she could have caught the illness sooner. That rumination led her to relentlessly pester him into a colonoscopy, which found a huge polyp. He offers it as a concrete example of depression's analytical, problem-focused function — intense rumination as the mind working over an unsolved problem.

  • Rumination is a major component of depression: repeatedly thinking over what happened
  • Paul Andrews argues depression shifts cognitive resources onto hard, unsolved problems
  • His mother's rumination couldn't bring his father back, but redirected attention to future health risks
  • Colon cancer is highly heritable — her pestering led to a colonoscopy that found a large polyp

Maybe she saved my life by becoming depressed and really thinking carefully about what happened to my dad.

Ed Hagen · 10:45
#rumination#depression#personal-story#analytical-hypothesis

Q&A· 1

Q&A53:30

On 'just-so stories' and the theory that failed the test

Asked about the charge that evolutionary psychology just tells 'just-so stories,' Hagen embraces them as the starting point of all science — a story about a phenomenon that must then be tested. He offers the ovulatory-shift hypothesis (that women's mating preferences vary across the menstrual cycle) as an example: it had preliminary support but larger controlled studies failed to replicate it. That, he says, is exactly how science is supposed to work.

  • All science begins with a story about an interesting phenomenon, then tests it
  • The ovulatory-shift hypothesis had early support but failed in bigger controlled studies
  • A good theory generates testable predictions — and must be abandoned when tests fail
  • 'If we rule out telling stories then science dies'

All science starts off with a just so story... but then you got to test it.

Ed Hagen · 53:45
#just-so-stories#scientific-method#ovulatory-shift#evolutionary-psychology