Make-It-About-Them Small Talk
Beat social dread by turning every conversation onto the other person
- Difficulty
- Starter
- Time to result
- ~days to results
- Steps
- 4
- Confidence
- 74%
A self-described introvert, Navarro finds groups a challenge and solves small talk by refusing to talk about himself and making the conversation entirely about the other person. He genuinely wants to know what they do, what fascinates them, what movies they watch, the little details, an attorney who loves photography, a grandmother more into her grandkids than her daughter. Turning the conversation onto them removes his own performance pressure and produces better exchanges. For the edge case of meeting another deflector who also wants to make it about you, he keeps a backup: one rehearsed giveaway story he can offer to satisfy reciprocity before redirecting. He contrasts this with braggers, which he finds painful and simply walks away from. The mechanism is curiosity as both social lubricant and pressure valve.
Origin
Joe Navarro's personal approach as a self-identified introvert, refined over a career of interviewing more than 13,000 people where listening beat talking.
Core principles
- 01You already know your own story; theirs is the interesting one
- 02Curiosity about others removes the pressure to perform
- 03The best conversations are ones where you barely talk about yourself
- 04Keep one giveaway story ready for when you must reciprocate
- 05Bragging repels; genuine interest draws people in
How to run it
- 1
Decide not to talk about yourself
Enter the conversation resolved to keep the focus off yourself. You already know your own history; it is not what you are there to learn.
- 2
Ask what they do and love
Open with genuine questions about their work and interests, then follow the thread into specifics: hobbies, family, the movies they are watching.
Pro tip The small, specific things are the gold; chase the attorney who is secretly obsessed with photography.
- 3
Keep a giveaway story ready
For when you meet someone who insists on making it about you, have one rehearsed story you can offer to satisfy reciprocity, then steer back to them.
Pro tip Navarro's giveaway is the defector he persuaded by holding the man's hand until he cried.
- 4
Walk away from braggers
Recognize that endless self-promotion repels; disengage from braggers rather than trying to compete or endure it.
Watch out Bragging is the fastest way to make yourself the least interesting person in the room.
In the wild
Riding through San Francisco, Navarro listened as the driver, hearing a Kenyan or Ethiopian had won the Boston Marathon, said the runner was from his tribe. Instead of mentioning his own big talk, Navarro spent the ride asking about the man's upbringing. The driver revealed that where he grew up they had no newspapers or radios, so they never knew what world records were and simply ran fast everywhere. Navarro calls it one of the most worthwhile conversations he ever had.
→ A throwaway cab ride became a profound, memorable exchange because he made it entirely about the other person.
Common mistakes
Making it about yourself
Talking about your own history and achievements caps the conversation; the other person's story is the interesting and disarming one.
Having no backup story
Meeting another person who deflects onto you creates a stalemate unless you keep one giveaway story ready to offer.
Is it for you?
Best for
Introverts and anyone who finds parties and networking draining.
Not ideal for
Contexts that specifically require you to pitch or present yourself.
From the transcript
“The easiest way is do not talk about yourself”
“you have to have a backup plan and that backup plan is i'll find one story”
“nothing is more painful than to listen to people brag”
From the episode
An FBI Agent's Guide To Body Language - Joe Navarro - #389
Joe Navarro